<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Idea #6: AI-Coder.com</title>
	<atom:link href="http://benjismith.net/index.php/2006/06/21/biz-idea-06-ai-coder/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://benjismith.net/index.php/2006/06/21/biz-idea-06-ai-coder/</link>
	<description>Benji Smith, Software Research</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 08 May 2012 19:24:19 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://benjismith.net/index.php/2006/06/21/biz-idea-06-ai-coder/comment-page-1/#comment-1900</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Aug 2006 18:12:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benjismith.net/index.php/2006/06/21/biz-idea-06-ai-coder/#comment-1900</guid>
		<description>Since you&#039;ve now decided this is the chosen project.  I&#039;ll bump &lt;a href=&quot;http://benjismith.net/index.php/2006/06/21/biz-idea-06-ai-coder/#comment-214&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;my idea&lt;/a&gt; again for feedback.

What about offloading some of the AI computation onto participant machines?  I imagine a large number of participants would have access to a public IP for their own use.  You could define a web service that participants could implement.  When it’s their turn, you call their webservice by sending the game state, and they respond with their play.

This could also play into the segmented pricing model.  Those who hosted their own AI code would consume less of your resources and would be elligible for reduced fees.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since you&#8217;ve now decided this is the chosen project.  I&#8217;ll bump <a href="http://benjismith.net/index.php/2006/06/21/biz-idea-06-ai-coder/#comment-214" rel="nofollow">my idea</a> again for feedback.</p>
<p>What about offloading some of the AI computation onto participant machines?  I imagine a large number of participants would have access to a public IP for their own use.  You could define a web service that participants could implement.  When it’s their turn, you call their webservice by sending the game state, and they respond with their play.</p>
<p>This could also play into the segmented pricing model.  Those who hosted their own AI code would consume less of your resources and would be elligible for reduced fees.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Max Ischenko</title>
		<link>http://benjismith.net/index.php/2006/06/21/biz-idea-06-ai-coder/comment-page-1/#comment-1617</link>
		<dc:creator>Max Ischenko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Aug 2006 14:42:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benjismith.net/index.php/2006/06/21/biz-idea-06-ai-coder/#comment-1617</guid>
		<description>I must be missing something but I just don&#039;t believe this idea may be profitable for  a software startup. It may be interesting to &quot;big fish&quot; like Microsoft of Sun, but startup?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I must be missing something but I just don&#8217;t believe this idea may be profitable for  a software startup. It may be interesting to &#8220;big fish&#8221; like Microsoft of Sun, but startup?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Phil</title>
		<link>http://benjismith.net/index.php/2006/06/21/biz-idea-06-ai-coder/comment-page-1/#comment-266</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jun 2006 17:40:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benjismith.net/index.php/2006/06/21/biz-idea-06-ai-coder/#comment-266</guid>
		<description>I think you should do this as a hobby, as opposed to a business idea.  You seem passionate about it, and it seems to have generated the most comments of all your ideas.  That means there is a 20% chance it will be a hit and make a lot of money, but a 100% chance you&#039;ll enjoy it.  Every other idea has just as slim of a chance of making money, but would you REALLY enjoy making retail analytics software two years or twenty years from now?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you should do this as a hobby, as opposed to a business idea.  You seem passionate about it, and it seems to have generated the most comments of all your ideas.  That means there is a 20% chance it will be a hit and make a lot of money, but a 100% chance you&#8217;ll enjoy it.  Every other idea has just as slim of a chance of making money, but would you REALLY enjoy making retail analytics software two years or twenty years from now?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Keeran</title>
		<link>http://benjismith.net/index.php/2006/06/21/biz-idea-06-ai-coder/comment-page-1/#comment-261</link>
		<dc:creator>Keeran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jun 2006 15:55:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benjismith.net/index.php/2006/06/21/biz-idea-06-ai-coder/#comment-261</guid>
		<description>Sounds a lot like Robocode (and all of it&#039;s predecessors) - http://robocode.sourceforge.net/ - I like the idea, but along with others in this comment thread, I wouldn&#039;t pay for it. Not as it stands anyway.

I have been toying with something similar but to get people to contribute navigation systems and compete against each other to reach destinations etc, and the main way I could see people paying for something like this would be to offer free general entrance to your system, but in order to enter their code into sponsored events (prize money etc), they have to be part of your subscription plan. This way you get the money from the coders and exposure for your advertisers / sponsors.

Other than that I like it, mainly because I *completely* agree with you re: comp sci -&gt; software engineering mind numbing transition. I finished my comp sci degree and for some reason thought webdev would be a good direction to head in. I realised recently that that step was the first in slowly destroying the mind that was interested in computer science in the first place and now I&#039;m trying hard to find computer related interests that engage me again - AI, GA, Computational Art etc. Time will tell! Maybe this could be the next big market - targetting frustrated compsci grads..

Good luck!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sounds a lot like Robocode (and all of it&#8217;s predecessors) &#8211; <a href="http://robocode.sourceforge.net/" rel="nofollow">http://robocode.sourceforge.net/</a> &#8211; I like the idea, but along with others in this comment thread, I wouldn&#8217;t pay for it. Not as it stands anyway.</p>
<p>I have been toying with something similar but to get people to contribute navigation systems and compete against each other to reach destinations etc, and the main way I could see people paying for something like this would be to offer free general entrance to your system, but in order to enter their code into sponsored events (prize money etc), they have to be part of your subscription plan. This way you get the money from the coders and exposure for your advertisers / sponsors.</p>
<p>Other than that I like it, mainly because I *completely* agree with you re: comp sci -&gt; software engineering mind numbing transition. I finished my comp sci degree and for some reason thought webdev would be a good direction to head in. I realised recently that that step was the first in slowly destroying the mind that was interested in computer science in the first place and now I&#8217;m trying hard to find computer related interests that engage me again &#8211; AI, GA, Computational Art etc. Time will tell! Maybe this could be the next big market &#8211; targetting frustrated compsci grads..</p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tom H.</title>
		<link>http://benjismith.net/index.php/2006/06/21/biz-idea-06-ai-coder/comment-page-1/#comment-238</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom H.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jun 2006 12:15:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benjismith.net/index.php/2006/06/21/biz-idea-06-ai-coder/#comment-238</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d worry about critical mass if you try to build the community up slowly, although that might not be a problem for this particular group - but in some ways you&#039;re building a social networking site, and they have different behaviors at different scales.

You&#039;ll also have a problem with competition from academics. The IEEE digital library seems to be down right now so I can&#039;t fact-check myself, but the June issue of Computer is about educating games programmers, and if I recall correctly there&#039;s a two- or three-page discussion of an academic group that&#039;s already in the late stages of putting together a system like you describe, has funding, and has run multiple successful competitions with their prototypes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d worry about critical mass if you try to build the community up slowly, although that might not be a problem for this particular group &#8211; but in some ways you&#8217;re building a social networking site, and they have different behaviors at different scales.</p>
<p>You&#8217;ll also have a problem with competition from academics. The IEEE digital library seems to be down right now so I can&#8217;t fact-check myself, but the June issue of Computer is about educating games programmers, and if I recall correctly there&#8217;s a two- or three-page discussion of an academic group that&#8217;s already in the late stages of putting together a system like you describe, has funding, and has run multiple successful competitions with their prototypes.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: benji</title>
		<link>http://benjismith.net/index.php/2006/06/21/biz-idea-06-ai-coder/comment-page-1/#comment-227</link>
		<dc:creator>benji</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jun 2006 06:32:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benjismith.net/index.php/2006/06/21/biz-idea-06-ai-coder/#comment-227</guid>
		<description>I can see your point, Ryan, buy I&#039;m reluctant to build a business plan where all of my revenue is conditional upon receiving enormous sums of money, in one fell swoop, from Google or Sun or Microsoft.

To me, it&#039;s reminiscent of the whole Web 2.0 business model:

1) Build an online community with no conceivable source of revenue.

2) ???

3) Sell to Yahoo! for $20 million.

Sure, this is a little different, but I want my business plan to stand on its own, without assuming the appearance of some corporate deus ex machina to save me from my own lack of business planning.

Plus, I think the same chicken-vs-egg problem exists with the corporate sponsorship revenue model. Before I could get any significant sponsorships, I&#039;d have to build a thriving community. And building a thriving community could cost a lot of money.

With the subscription model, at least I could scale the community up slowly, building the infrastructure using revenues collected from subscription fees. At some point, when the community reached a certain size and momentum, the inevitable corporate sponsorships would just add gravy to an already healthy stream of revenue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can see your point, Ryan, buy I&#8217;m reluctant to build a business plan where all of my revenue is conditional upon receiving enormous sums of money, in one fell swoop, from Google or Sun or Microsoft.</p>
<p>To me, it&#8217;s reminiscent of the whole Web 2.0 business model:</p>
<p>1) Build an online community with no conceivable source of revenue.</p>
<p>2) ???</p>
<p>3) Sell to Yahoo! for $20 million.</p>
<p>Sure, this is a little different, but I want my business plan to stand on its own, without assuming the appearance of some corporate deus ex machina to save me from my own lack of business planning.</p>
<p>Plus, I think the same chicken-vs-egg problem exists with the corporate sponsorship revenue model. Before I could get any significant sponsorships, I&#8217;d have to build a thriving community. And building a thriving community could cost a lot of money.</p>
<p>With the subscription model, at least I could scale the community up slowly, building the infrastructure using revenues collected from subscription fees. At some point, when the community reached a certain size and momentum, the inevitable corporate sponsorships would just add gravy to an already healthy stream of revenue.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: give</title>
		<link>http://benjismith.net/index.php/2006/06/21/biz-idea-06-ai-coder/comment-page-1/#comment-225</link>
		<dc:creator>give</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jun 2006 01:57:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benjismith.net/index.php/2006/06/21/biz-idea-06-ai-coder/#comment-225</guid>
		<description>I think you are focusing too much on &quot;receiving&quot;. Your business, whatever it ends up being, should focus on &quot;giving&quot;. There is a lot to give. Believe me! You already know your interests and talents. Don&#039;t try to focus on &quot;I&quot; and &quot;receiving&quot;. Look around you for opportunities of &quot;giving&quot; your talents and interests away (and I don&#039;t mean for free). Have a cure for cancer? Give that. Have a cure for baldness? Give that. Get the point? Look for what people want. Not what you want people to want, or what you think people want. If you do this, you&#039;ll have no shortage of clients.

Good luck!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you are focusing too much on &#8220;receiving&#8221;. Your business, whatever it ends up being, should focus on &#8220;giving&#8221;. There is a lot to give. Believe me! You already know your interests and talents. Don&#8217;t try to focus on &#8220;I&#8221; and &#8220;receiving&#8221;. Look around you for opportunities of &#8220;giving&#8221; your talents and interests away (and I don&#8217;t mean for free). Have a cure for cancer? Give that. Have a cure for baldness? Give that. Get the point? Look for what people want. Not what you want people to want, or what you think people want. If you do this, you&#8217;ll have no shortage of clients.</p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://benjismith.net/index.php/2006/06/21/biz-idea-06-ai-coder/comment-page-1/#comment-224</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jun 2006 22:58:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benjismith.net/index.php/2006/06/21/biz-idea-06-ai-coder/#comment-224</guid>
		<description>I think this is a really neat idea -- it&#039;s something that doesn&#039;t really exist yet; you&#039;ve already got a working proof-of-concept; and it sounds like it would be a fun challenge.

But I don&#039;t think 3000 paid subscribers sounds all that likely.  Remember, it&#039;s not a good idea to use &quot;top-down&quot; logic for your revenue projections.  (&quot;If we only service 5% of the people in China, we&#039;ll earn a trillion dollars!&quot;)  How are you going to get your first paying client?  And your 10th?  And your 100th?

I think you could make a lot more money from strategic partnerships, like TopCoder does.  For example, Sun sponsors TopCoder contests to get people to program in Java.  Google sponsors contests to find new recruits for employment.  My wild guess is that these sponsorships could net you $5000-10000 each.  Probably more for a Google one, as it would be very high profile; less for some others.  With this kind of approach, it seems like you could develop a sales and marketing strategy that&#039;s more likely to succeed.  It would also help grow your community for the unsponsored contests.

One benefit of the sponsorship approach is that there&#039;s no network effect involved.  You don&#039;t have to have a big community to run a Sun contest, just the technical infrastructure to facilitate their contest.

Related to that: if possible, don&#039;t tie your infrastructure to one programming language.  You&#039;ll never get a Microsoft sponsorship if your infrastructure requires agents to be developed in Java.  And for an open contest, I bet a lot of developers would be more interested if they could do a language shootout (pissing contest), to do to show that their Lisp/Ruby/Python agents are better than my Java/VB/Fortran agents.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this is a really neat idea &#8212; it&#8217;s something that doesn&#8217;t really exist yet; you&#8217;ve already got a working proof-of-concept; and it sounds like it would be a fun challenge.</p>
<p>But I don&#8217;t think 3000 paid subscribers sounds all that likely.  Remember, it&#8217;s not a good idea to use &#8220;top-down&#8221; logic for your revenue projections.  (&#8221;If we only service 5% of the people in China, we&#8217;ll earn a trillion dollars!&#8221;)  How are you going to get your first paying client?  And your 10th?  And your 100th?</p>
<p>I think you could make a lot more money from strategic partnerships, like TopCoder does.  For example, Sun sponsors TopCoder contests to get people to program in Java.  Google sponsors contests to find new recruits for employment.  My wild guess is that these sponsorships could net you $5000-10000 each.  Probably more for a Google one, as it would be very high profile; less for some others.  With this kind of approach, it seems like you could develop a sales and marketing strategy that&#8217;s more likely to succeed.  It would also help grow your community for the unsponsored contests.</p>
<p>One benefit of the sponsorship approach is that there&#8217;s no network effect involved.  You don&#8217;t have to have a big community to run a Sun contest, just the technical infrastructure to facilitate their contest.</p>
<p>Related to that: if possible, don&#8217;t tie your infrastructure to one programming language.  You&#8217;ll never get a Microsoft sponsorship if your infrastructure requires agents to be developed in Java.  And for an open contest, I bet a lot of developers would be more interested if they could do a language shootout (pissing contest), to do to show that their Lisp/Ruby/Python agents are better than my Java/VB/Fortran agents.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: benji</title>
		<link>http://benjismith.net/index.php/2006/06/21/biz-idea-06-ai-coder/comment-page-1/#comment-217</link>
		<dc:creator>benji</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jun 2006 21:10:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benjismith.net/index.php/2006/06/21/biz-idea-06-ai-coder/#comment-217</guid>
		<description>Evgeny Shadchnev says:
&quot;If I were you I’d try to earn money on ads, because you’ll have the possibility to run targeted ads.&quot;

I would definitely run targeted ads, but I&#039;d anticipate a few problems with relying on ads:

1) I don&#039;t like being limited to a single revenue stream, especially if that revenue stream is so closely tied to my Google ranking (as is often the case with AdSense).

2) Tech-savvy people (and especially computer programmers) are probably the least-likely group of people in the entire world to click on ads. If I relied on ad revenue, I&#039;d starve.

3) A closed community of users is unlikely to generate much in the way of click volume. Generally, the closed user community published content (in the AI-Coder forums, of course) and then all of the click volume is generated by a population of transient readers. I&#039;d need to place a lot of focus on luring in the transient users. It&#039;s possible, but I don&#039;t know if I&#039;d want it to be the  focus of my attention.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Evgeny Shadchnev says:<br />
&#8220;If I were you I’d try to earn money on ads, because you’ll have the possibility to run targeted ads.&#8221;</p>
<p>I would definitely run targeted ads, but I&#8217;d anticipate a few problems with relying on ads:</p>
<p>1) I don&#8217;t like being limited to a single revenue stream, especially if that revenue stream is so closely tied to my Google ranking (as is often the case with AdSense).</p>
<p>2) Tech-savvy people (and especially computer programmers) are probably the least-likely group of people in the entire world to click on ads. If I relied on ad revenue, I&#8217;d starve.</p>
<p>3) A closed community of users is unlikely to generate much in the way of click volume. Generally, the closed user community published content (in the AI-Coder forums, of course) and then all of the click volume is generated by a population of transient readers. I&#8217;d need to place a lot of focus on luring in the transient users. It&#8217;s possible, but I don&#8217;t know if I&#8217;d want it to be the  focus of my attention.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Francesc</title>
		<link>http://benjismith.net/index.php/2006/06/21/biz-idea-06-ai-coder/comment-page-1/#comment-215</link>
		<dc:creator>Francesc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jun 2006 19:49:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benjismith.net/index.php/2006/06/21/biz-idea-06-ai-coder/#comment-215</guid>
		<description>I cant&#039; answer why, I don&#039;t even understand how can I have a behavour so irrational, but it&#039;s what I feel. Maybe becaus I&#039;m used to pay &quot;to get&quot; and not &quot;to give&quot; ... and tha is the feeling that I&#039;ve when programming bots. But the &quot;rake&quot; idea likes me very much, the posibility to be rewarded with money it looks very atractive, although I would prefer a bigger prize to the winner of a league.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I cant&#8217; answer why, I don&#8217;t even understand how can I have a behavour so irrational, but it&#8217;s what I feel. Maybe becaus I&#8217;m used to pay &#8220;to get&#8221; and not &#8220;to give&#8221; &#8230; and tha is the feeling that I&#8217;ve when programming bots. But the &#8220;rake&#8221; idea likes me very much, the posibility to be rewarded with money it looks very atractive, although I would prefer a bigger prize to the winner of a league.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

