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	<title>Comments on: Solving Impossible Problems</title>
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	<link>http://benjismith.net/index.php/2007/01/27/solving-impossible-problems/</link>
	<description>Benji Smith, Software Research</description>
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		<title>By: tipster</title>
		<link>http://benjismith.net/index.php/2007/01/27/solving-impossible-problems/comment-page-1/#comment-160809</link>
		<dc:creator>tipster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Nov 2011 00:11:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benjismith.net/index.php/2007/01/27/solving-impossible-problems/#comment-160809</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;tipster...&lt;/strong&gt;

[...]benjismith.net  &#187; Blog Archive   &#187; Solving Impossible Problems[...]...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>tipster&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>[...]benjismith.net  &raquo; Blog Archive   &raquo; Solving Impossible Problems[...]&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Solver</title>
		<link>http://benjismith.net/index.php/2007/01/27/solving-impossible-problems/comment-page-1/#comment-92917</link>
		<dc:creator>Solver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 15:23:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benjismith.net/index.php/2007/01/27/solving-impossible-problems/#comment-92917</guid>
		<description>Eternity II facts:

22 unique edge colors (plus gray, making 23 in total)
Each tile has its tile number printed on the back, so is not reversible.

There are around 1.2 million unique combinations of 4 tiles arranged in a square. I call this arrangement a &#039;Quad&#039;. Of these, 1050 quads fit in the corner; and around 43000 fit along an edge. There are 460 unique edge patterns formed by all possible quads.

This problem really is effectively impossible, and I will be very surprised indeed if anyone solves it, ever -- except by trying possible board layouts at random, and being very very very lucky.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eternity II facts:</p>
<p>22 unique edge colors (plus gray, making 23 in total)<br />
Each tile has its tile number printed on the back, so is not reversible.</p>
<p>There are around 1.2 million unique combinations of 4 tiles arranged in a square. I call this arrangement a &#8216;Quad&#8217;. Of these, 1050 quads fit in the corner; and around 43000 fit along an edge. There are 460 unique edge patterns formed by all possible quads.</p>
<p>This problem really is effectively impossible, and I will be very surprised indeed if anyone solves it, ever &#8212; except by trying possible board layouts at random, and being very very very lucky.</p>
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		<title>By: djc</title>
		<link>http://benjismith.net/index.php/2007/01/27/solving-impossible-problems/comment-page-1/#comment-71279</link>
		<dc:creator>djc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2007 03:39:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benjismith.net/index.php/2007/01/27/solving-impossible-problems/#comment-71279</guid>
		<description>Distributed computing is not likely to crack it. It is more likely to crack it with a very optimized program like the one running on my machine. Hit a depth of 212 earlier :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Distributed computing is not likely to crack it. It is more likely to crack it with a very optimized program like the one running on my machine. Hit a depth of 212 earlier :-)</p>
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		<title>By: tim</title>
		<link>http://benjismith.net/index.php/2007/01/27/solving-impossible-problems/comment-page-1/#comment-56490</link>
		<dc:creator>tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Oct 2007 06:40:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benjismith.net/index.php/2007/01/27/solving-impossible-problems/#comment-56490</guid>
		<description>Need RAM?  I have a machine with 4 processors and 128GB RAM waiting for interesting problems to solve.  Email me...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Need RAM?  I have a machine with 4 processors and 128GB RAM waiting for interesting problems to solve.  Email me&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: uzeknw</title>
		<link>http://benjismith.net/index.php/2007/01/27/solving-impossible-problems/comment-page-1/#comment-54726</link>
		<dc:creator>uzeknw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2007 05:55:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benjismith.net/index.php/2007/01/27/solving-impossible-problems/#comment-54726</guid>
		<description>I haven&#039;t purchased the puzzle yet, but from what little that I can find, the unique number of permutations is approximately 256! * 4^256, however this is not needed in anyway shape or form.  The puzzle can be attached mathematically and not in a brute force manner to achieve a solution in the shortest time possible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#8217;t purchased the puzzle yet, but from what little that I can find, the unique number of permutations is approximately 256! * 4^256, however this is not needed in anyway shape or form.  The puzzle can be attached mathematically and not in a brute force manner to achieve a solution in the shortest time possible.</p>
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		<title>By: themuffinking</title>
		<link>http://benjismith.net/index.php/2007/01/27/solving-impossible-problems/comment-page-1/#comment-54045</link>
		<dc:creator>themuffinking</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 01:46:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benjismith.net/index.php/2007/01/27/solving-impossible-problems/#comment-54045</guid>
		<description>I have a copy of the puzzle. There are only 22 different side markings - they&#039;re listed on the inside front cover of the instruction manual.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a copy of the puzzle. There are only 22 different side markings &#8211; they&#8217;re listed on the inside front cover of the instruction manual.</p>
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		<title>By: Lyndon Jolley</title>
		<link>http://benjismith.net/index.php/2007/01/27/solving-impossible-problems/comment-page-1/#comment-53916</link>
		<dc:creator>Lyndon Jolley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Sep 2007 08:13:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benjismith.net/index.php/2007/01/27/solving-impossible-problems/#comment-53916</guid>
		<description>Hi Benji, 

I purchased the puzzle a week after it was released in Australia and sat down for 4-5 hours and only got about 7 lines of pieces done. That&#039;s only about 22 pieces done per hour doing it manually. I realised that this puzzle will only ever be solved by a computer, (unless you can pick winning lotto numbers) so I joined eternity2.net and have my computer running 24/7. 

Do you have a program set up to work it out on the computer yet? I am very interested in seeing a competitor to eternity2.net. 

p.s. I heard that if you join up with the eternity2 yahoo group you are automatically disqualified from the comp. Is this true?

Good luck with the algorythms.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Benji, </p>
<p>I purchased the puzzle a week after it was released in Australia and sat down for 4-5 hours and only got about 7 lines of pieces done. That&#8217;s only about 22 pieces done per hour doing it manually. I realised that this puzzle will only ever be solved by a computer, (unless you can pick winning lotto numbers) so I joined eternity2.net and have my computer running 24/7. </p>
<p>Do you have a program set up to work it out on the computer yet? I am very interested in seeing a competitor to eternity2.net. </p>
<p>p.s. I heard that if you join up with the eternity2 yahoo group you are automatically disqualified from the comp. Is this true?</p>
<p>Good luck with the algorythms.</p>
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		<title>By: Todor Balabanov</title>
		<link>http://benjismith.net/index.php/2007/01/27/solving-impossible-problems/comment-page-1/#comment-52834</link>
		<dc:creator>Todor Balabanov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Sep 2007 08:09:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benjismith.net/index.php/2007/01/27/solving-impossible-problems/#comment-52834</guid>
		<description> You are not right. Did you read the solution of the first puzzle? Big size of the puzzle is not a guarantee that it will be more difficult than the smaller ones. You are not right for the brute force too. In a distributed environment it is not so impossible: http://www.eternity2.net/ Anyway, brute force even in a distributed computing will not be efficient enough. I am sure that the winner will use some smart eristic.

 The edge pieces provide you a way to split the problem it two parts and of course to simplify it, but you still have a problem to relate both solutions (1. Solution for the border and 2. Solution from the middle part). In practice you can arrange first all possible borders and after that to arrange 14x14 by all possible ways starting from the piece 139. At the end you still will need to mach solutions form the borders with the solutions of the middle part.

 Is it possible to use non-deterministic algorithms (like GA) in solving such a problem? Did some of you try to solve only borders of the puzzle? The corner pieces are 4 and can be arranged in 4! ways. After that we have 4 edges by 14 edge pieces or 56 and they can be arranged in 56! ways. To find all possible borders it should be: 4!*56!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are not right. Did you read the solution of the first puzzle? Big size of the puzzle is not a guarantee that it will be more difficult than the smaller ones. You are not right for the brute force too. In a distributed environment it is not so impossible: <a href="http://www.eternity2.net/" rel="nofollow">http://www.eternity2.net/</a> Anyway, brute force even in a distributed computing will not be efficient enough. I am sure that the winner will use some smart eristic.</p>
<p> The edge pieces provide you a way to split the problem it two parts and of course to simplify it, but you still have a problem to relate both solutions (1. Solution for the border and 2. Solution from the middle part). In practice you can arrange first all possible borders and after that to arrange 14&#215;14 by all possible ways starting from the piece 139. At the end you still will need to mach solutions form the borders with the solutions of the middle part.</p>
<p> Is it possible to use non-deterministic algorithms (like GA) in solving such a problem? Did some of you try to solve only borders of the puzzle? The corner pieces are 4 and can be arranged in 4! ways. After that we have 4 edges by 14 edge pieces or 56 and they can be arranged in 56! ways. To find all possible borders it should be: 4!*56!</p>
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		<title>By: benji</title>
		<link>http://benjismith.net/index.php/2007/01/27/solving-impossible-problems/comment-page-1/#comment-52769</link>
		<dc:creator>benji</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2007 19:01:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benjismith.net/index.php/2007/01/27/solving-impossible-problems/#comment-52769</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s a good question, Lyndon.

Solving a puzzle like this can be conceptualized as a search problem within a massive decision tree. When placing the first piece on the board, you have 256 different pieces (and four rotations per piece) to choose from. Chances are, the choice is incorrect, since the puzzle has so few correct solutions.

But how long does it take to realize that the choice was incorrect? Often, you won&#039;t know you made a bad placement until you&#039;ve already traversed deeply into the decision tree (empirically, on this puzzle, you can often get 100 or 200 nodes deep into the decision tree before discovering that you&#039;ve hit a dead end). To reduce the amount of wasted time searching through unproductive branches of the tree, it&#039;s essential to discover those dead-ends as soon as possible.

One of the techniques I&#039;m using (and most of the other puzzlers on the Eternity2 Yahoo group) is to find the most constrained positions on the board, and start trying to find valid pieces for those locations first.

As it turns out, the most constrained positions are the corners. Each corner location can support only four possible pieces. On the borders, there are only 56 possible pieces for each location. In the center of the board, there are 196 different candidate pieces for each location.

Constraints are also added to the board each time a new piece is placed, since the occupied grid cells have to have matching edges with the new pieces placed adjacent to them.

Starting in the corners, progressing through the edges, and then working on the center (always placing new pieces adjacent to existing pieces), maximized the amount of constraint on the board throughout the solver.

Eliminating the corners and borders would get rid of a lot of those constraints, so it&#039;d be harder for the solver to know whether it was searching through an unproductive branch of the search tree.

On the other hand...

Eliminating those border constraints would make it easier to tile pieces in the center region. It&#039;d be much easier to place each piece without all those extra constraints, and you&#039;d fill out the puzzle grid more quickly.

Of course, you&#039;d often create false 14x14 solutions (since many of those solutions would be impossible to combine with a legal border solution).

I&#039;ve been working on a supervised learning technique for consuming imperfect puzzle solutions (either with mismatching edges or duplicate pieces) and using their imperfections to learn about the puzzle&#039;s larger constraint structure. It actually could be quite useful, from this perspective.

If I had a few million 14x14 inner solutions, I might be able to study the characteristics of those false solutions, leveraging their statistical properties to better trim the global search tree toward finding a ream 16x16 solution.

I like the way you think, Lyndon :-) Are you working on the puzzle?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a good question, Lyndon.</p>
<p>Solving a puzzle like this can be conceptualized as a search problem within a massive decision tree. When placing the first piece on the board, you have 256 different pieces (and four rotations per piece) to choose from. Chances are, the choice is incorrect, since the puzzle has so few correct solutions.</p>
<p>But how long does it take to realize that the choice was incorrect? Often, you won&#8217;t know you made a bad placement until you&#8217;ve already traversed deeply into the decision tree (empirically, on this puzzle, you can often get 100 or 200 nodes deep into the decision tree before discovering that you&#8217;ve hit a dead end). To reduce the amount of wasted time searching through unproductive branches of the tree, it&#8217;s essential to discover those dead-ends as soon as possible.</p>
<p>One of the techniques I&#8217;m using (and most of the other puzzlers on the Eternity2 Yahoo group) is to find the most constrained positions on the board, and start trying to find valid pieces for those locations first.</p>
<p>As it turns out, the most constrained positions are the corners. Each corner location can support only four possible pieces. On the borders, there are only 56 possible pieces for each location. In the center of the board, there are 196 different candidate pieces for each location.</p>
<p>Constraints are also added to the board each time a new piece is placed, since the occupied grid cells have to have matching edges with the new pieces placed adjacent to them.</p>
<p>Starting in the corners, progressing through the edges, and then working on the center (always placing new pieces adjacent to existing pieces), maximized the amount of constraint on the board throughout the solver.</p>
<p>Eliminating the corners and borders would get rid of a lot of those constraints, so it&#8217;d be harder for the solver to know whether it was searching through an unproductive branch of the search tree.</p>
<p>On the other hand&#8230;</p>
<p>Eliminating those border constraints would make it easier to tile pieces in the center region. It&#8217;d be much easier to place each piece without all those extra constraints, and you&#8217;d fill out the puzzle grid more quickly.</p>
<p>Of course, you&#8217;d often create false 14&#215;14 solutions (since many of those solutions would be impossible to combine with a legal border solution).</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been working on a supervised learning technique for consuming imperfect puzzle solutions (either with mismatching edges or duplicate pieces) and using their imperfections to learn about the puzzle&#8217;s larger constraint structure. It actually could be quite useful, from this perspective.</p>
<p>If I had a few million 14&#215;14 inner solutions, I might be able to study the characteristics of those false solutions, leveraging their statistical properties to better trim the global search tree toward finding a ream 16&#215;16 solution.</p>
<p>I like the way you think, Lyndon :-) Are you working on the puzzle?</p>
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		<title>By: Lyndon Jolley</title>
		<link>http://benjismith.net/index.php/2007/01/27/solving-impossible-problems/comment-page-1/#comment-52181</link>
		<dc:creator>Lyndon Jolley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Sep 2007 05:20:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benjismith.net/index.php/2007/01/27/solving-impossible-problems/#comment-52181</guid>
		<description>Just a quick question (It may or may not be a dumb one) if you eliminate the edge pieces from the programming all together, and only work with a 14 x 14 grid, would this elimainate a huge percentage of possibilities? You could get all the possibilities straight up, when you get all of the 100% results possible for only the 14 x 14 grid, then add the final pieces to get the final answer?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just a quick question (It may or may not be a dumb one) if you eliminate the edge pieces from the programming all together, and only work with a 14 x 14 grid, would this elimainate a huge percentage of possibilities? You could get all the possibilities straight up, when you get all of the 100% results possible for only the 14 x 14 grid, then add the final pieces to get the final answer?</p>
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